Coyote Con Transcript: Non-human Character Creation

I joined fellow authors  KL Richardsson, John Rosenman, and Cindy Lynn Speer on Saturday, May 8th, for a discussion about  how to create realistic non-human characters. We chatted about how to make the character three dimensional to your readers, what to do, what not to do, and when to break the rules. We had a terrific group asking some pertinent–and some funny–questions.

View this and other transcripts from all Coyote Con Panels at the Coyote Con website.

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[CindyLynn] 9:03 pm: I am the moderator for this chat as well as a guest. We should get started. Welcome to our chat5 about nonhuman character creation.
Please save all questions to the end, and try not to private message the guests…please IM me in case of emergency, of course!

[CindyLynn] 9:04 pm: Let’s start by introducing the panelists…John, would you like to start?

[John] 9:05 pm: Sure. I’m John Rosenman. My site is www.johnrosenman.com, and I’ve published 350 stories and about 15 books. I write about aliens a lot. DONE

[Coyote]: Mo has entered at 9:05 pm

[CindyLynn] 9:07 pm: K.L Richardson, would you like to go next?

[klrichardsson] 9:08 pm: Sure! I’m KL Richardsson, I’m a YA Fantasy author. I’ve currently written three books of a quartet about what happens when an empire is policed by telepaths, and you can find me at www.klrichardsson.com.

[klrichardsson] 9:08 pm: My non-human focus tends to be on horses, though I have a space opera idea on the brain…

[teresawymore] 9:09 pm: Cool KL, and holy cow John…didn’t realize it was that many!…

[teresawymore] 9:09 pm: I’m Teresa Wymore. I have NOT written 350 shorts and novellas in print and ebook. Only about 10. I have a the fantasy novel Darklaw coming soon from Drollerie. I’ve written fantasy & scifi, paranormals and aliens. Werewolf, vampire, succubus, and scifi alien species. (You can find a free erotic vampire story “Casting Shadows” on my site and PenFlourish.com.)

[CindyLynn] 9:09 pm: I should also mention that, just so we don’t step on each other, let’s put g/a at the end so people can know it’s ok to speak…I always forget to mention that earlier.

[CindyLynn] 9:10 pm: Finally, I’m Cindy Lynn Speer, author of several short stories collected into an anthology called “But Can You Let Him Go?” Blue Moon and The Chocolatier’s Wife. I write fantasy, re-told fairy tales and murder mysteries. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:11 pm: So, to get the ball rolling, may I ask a question? What is your process, my fellow authors, for creating characters?

[klrichardsson] 9:12 pm: Finding the voice that’s loudest in my head, listening to it long enough to find out who it is, and then trying to shut it up? *g* g/a

[teresawymore] 9:12 pm: It’s real important to me to have a reason for a nonhuman character to be nonhuman, so I think about the difference I want to expose and build from there. g/a

[John] 9:12 pm: Characters, both human and other, come from a story line, flow from it. Since one of my major themes and obsessions is transformation, my characters, human and nonhuman, often pass through a metamorphosis. g/a

[John] 9:13 pm: For nonhuman characters, I follow two basic rules. They can’t just be human with makeup and one extra eye, and they can’t be so strange the reader can’t understand them. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:14 pm: I think that’s it’s also important to find that spark that makes them approachable…you can write as a dragon, and have a mind set completely like you think a dragon would be, but have it not be accessible to a human reader’s understanding?

[klrichardsson] 9:14 pm: In all seriousness, what Teresa says is a good way to begin. Since we have to define who a character is, ‘what’ is also a big part of that. Actually, the Ws and the H aren’t a bad way to start. Especially that whole ‘why’ thing. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:14 pm: So I think that one of my first steps is to try and find that one thing that will open the door. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:15 pm: Nonhuman characters seem to come in two forms: either they’re personified aspects of ourselves, taken to the extreme so allowing us to examine the aspect (more in spec fiction). Or they’re very human but not treated as one due to their appearance or past (I see more as literary fiction). Most
nonhumans and their worlds are shown to us by humans like ourselves (fish out of water). And with POV nonhumans, we are able to see ourselves through this accentuated aspect.

[CindyLynn] 9:15 pm: Mmm. True about the why bit. I mean, you have to have a reason why you’re creating the character, don’t you? And you have to include in that why an understanding of the world it lives in, so that why could become, why would you create/use this type of creature?

[teresawymore] 9:16 pm: John…I agree…makes me thin of Star Trek g/a

[John] 9:16 pm: CindyLynn, if it’s an alien, often he, she, it’s intended to test and bring out the essence of the hero. g/a

[John] 9:17 pm: Teresa, I was thinking of Star Trek! Over and out. I mean . . . g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:17 pm: John, would you elaborate on that point?

[John] 9:19 pm: CindyLynn, to give one example, sometimes the alien represents a unique challenge to the hero because of the alien’s nature. In Alien Dreams, for example, which I wrote for DP (plug!), the alien is a giant angelic creature that attacks the hero in his dreams. This brings out the best in him. g/a

[John] 9:20 pm: Aliens require heroes to confront the unknown and bizarre, to dig deep inside them to cope and win. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:20 pm: But I don’t think that the creature has to be there for the hero, either. I think non-human creations can be there as the heroes, or as characters that make a world or a story more interesting.

[teresawymore] 9:21 pm: Tacking on pointy teeth to a human to make it supernatural isn’t convincing. This predator should act like a predator and if it doesn’t give the reader a good reason why it’s so “human” and not what it appears to be. Nonhumans let us examine humans from an innocent POV where nothing taken for granted.

[John] 9:21 pm: In a novelette I just sold, a human female becomes an alien when she undergoes a tremendous transformation. Does she have the strength of character to cope with this and even prevail? g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:21 pm: Don’t nonhuman characters, irony of ironies, help us learn what it is to be human? To help us define what humanity is? g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:22 pm: For instance, I created a race a little wind spites for one of my stories. I created their culture, how they would communicate, what they would dress and look like, even though most of that never reached the book. Their purpose was to partly work with the main character…they allowed me to characterize my heroine, true, but they also added a great deal of atmosphere to the book. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:22 pm: Good point CindyLynn…Characters that fly will have a different sense of scale and the language and POV should reflect that. Characters will always assume they are normal and the other are like him. Race building, like world building shouldn’t be an info dump, but woven into the story only as needed for plot. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:22 pm: K.L., I think that you are right.

[klrichardsson] 9:23 pm: Teresa, that’s actually an issue I have a problem with. I was obsessing over petty details with one of my races, and it hung me up for months. We do have to decide what’s important, and what’s superfluous. And sometimes we think too hard, though that OCD can pay off. *g* g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:24 pm: It’s funny, though. Though my Shahi are pretty much tree-living elves, I still think of them as human, only with pointy ears. And the whole living in trees thing. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:24 pm: Definitely pays off…but even mainstream blockbusters can have those info dumps where you know the author just had to share all that research. Hahaha!

[John] 9:24 pm: It’s difficult if not impossible to tell everything about an alien species. It involves selection and illusion to make us feel we know an alien race when all we have are partial characteristics. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:24 pm: I think that, when you create a non-human character, you need to start from the ground up…the why’s we mentioned earlier…their world, what they eat, how the communicate, what they worship, if they worship…for me, the hardest challenge is to try and make them real in their own way, and not too human like. Which can be hard because…erm…I’m human? How do you guys tackle that problem? g/a

[teresawymore] 9:25 pm: That was an issue as a reader for me…

[John] 9:26 pm: Cindy, you have to make them plausible. In my novel, Beyond Those Distant Stars, I have a cosmic female alien who is almost impossible to describe. But I think I make this creature understandable by giving her a jealous attachment to the heroine. We can ALL understand jealousy; it’s a human trait. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:26 pm: My fav author Ursula LeGuin was great at aliens, but she went too far, leaving humanity and the familiar behind in the Winds twelve Quarters. Couldn’t get through it.

[klrichardsson] 9:27 pm: I guess you just try to put yourself in that mindset. If I live in a tree, what will I wear? What would I need to wear? How extended would my limbs/fingers/toes be? What is my body structure like? Then I do research on any earth species that might apply and try to use the same biology and logic. Or just make it up. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:28 pm: Actually, Teresa, that’s a book I was thinking about. It was too nebulous…you do have to leave that window of accessibility. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:28 pm: That’s the balance—human enough to relate but that one aspect that is different or extreme. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:29 pm: So, speaking of other authors…who has done non-human characters right? Who hasn’t?

[CindyLynn] 9:29 pm: g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:29 pm: Anne McCaffrey’s dragons have always been incredibly real to me, especially Ruth. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:29 pm: Indeed.

[John] 9:30 pm: I’m re-reading THE MOTE IN GOD’S EYE, in which the authors, Niven and Pournelle, create really different, but strangely plausible aliens. g/a

[John] 9:30 pm: Orson Scott Card does a good job. And, Octavia Butler in the Xenogenesis trilogy. That’s ALIEN SEX, folks. g/a!

[klrichardsson] 9:30 pm: Klingons may be my favorite alien species ever, though I did come to find the Bajorans and Cardassians as being well developed on DS9. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:31 pm: yes! Bajoran and Cardassians…DS9 is my fav Star Trek incarnation

[teresawymore] 9:31 pm: The aliens there are complex

[klrichardsson] 9:31 pm: I’m still mourning for Morn. Heck, even the Ferengi are so well developed! g/a

[teresawymore] 9:32 pm: I’ve never cared for Asimov but like Heinlein

[teresawymore] 9:32 pm: I’m a little bored with modern fantasy

[teresawymore] 9:33 pm: Few unique mythologies

[John] 9:33 pm: James Blish. A Case of Conscience. Noble humanoids who are the devil’s snare. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:33 pm: Too many writers getting ideas from movies’

[klrichardsson] 9:33 pm: The Shrike from the Hyperion books intrigued me, but most of the human characters kinda bored me.

[teresawymore] 9:33 pm: Blish…picked up one of his at used books yesterday

[CindyLynn] 9:33 pm: There’s a lot of science fiction mentioned…but there are some really good fantasy ones, too. Anne McCaffrey, of course…Barbara Hambly’s
Dragonsbane made me want to write in the first place…

[John] 9:33 pm: Yes, Teresa, that’s part of the problem. I LUVED Avatar, but . . . g/a

[teresawymore] 9:34 pm: absolutely

[klrichardsson] 9:34 pm: The world building in Avatar was incredible! The story was…every other story rehashed. g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:34 pm: CindyLynn, for the YA set, Diane Duane has some great nonhuman species in her Young Wizards books. Not including the cat and whale wizards. g/a

[John] 9:34 pm: Anyone seen The Man From Earth, based on a Bixby story. Great movie. A 14,000 year old human. Is he not an alien? g/a

[teresawymore] 9:34 pm: World building as far as cinematography–great eye candy.

[teresawymore] 9:35 pm: Diane Duane…she wrote ST novels, too?

[CindyLynn] 9:35 pm: So, for our fellow writers in the chat, what tips can you give that we’ve not covered yet?

[CindyLynn] 9:36 pm: g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:36 pm: Think everything through! Obsess over the little details, even if you never use them! It makes the world that much more believable. It’s a culture you’re building. Don’t shortchange it, even if they’re horses or dogs or walking squids. g/a

[John] 9:37 pm: Tips — the aliens should SPEAK differently from us, often in brackets or something else. That’s one thing. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:37 pm: Ironically, non-humans are the aspect of writing that I research the most, because for me it’s so important to make sure that everything is logical. That bubble of suspension of disbelief is so fragile…and I’m grinning because I just read K.L.’s comment. g/a

[John] 9:37 pm: And I don’t just mean Yoda. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:38 pm: I’m wondering if there is a stigma about nonhuman viewpoint characters, that the more non-human the writer makes them, the less readers will identify? You read and see lots of no viewpoint characters that are nonhuman.

[teresawymore] 9:38 pm: sidekicks etc

[teresawymore] 9:38 pm: the hero is always a young white male

[teresawymore] 9:38 pm: (in mainstream, not niche)

[John] 9:38 pm: Teresa, he is in Avatar. g/a

[John] 9:39 pm: Remember, 85% of the market is nonfiction. That practical orientation contributes to the bias against weird aliens. g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:39 pm: I’d love to see more nonhuman viewpoint characters. Write it, authors! Write it now! I wonder if it’s why people tend to hesitate to write outside of gender/race/orientation/etc.

[teresawymore] 9:40 pm: I’ve written one M/M story and will never write another. I much prefer to get inside the head of a female alien.

[CindyLynn] 9:40 pm: Teresa, that’s what I was thinking about earlier. I think that you have to try and make them really different…and I’m avoiding the word alien because non-humans are NOT just for Science Fiction — but really their own way of thinking, but there still has to be that open window, one human thing that makes us feel like we could understand them. g/a

[John] 9:40 pm: Why’s that, Teresa? Men are from Mars, women are from Venus? g/a

[teresawymore] 9:40 pm: Hahahaha!

[klrichardsson] 9:41 pm: I think you’re right, CyndiLynn. It’s a fine line. I have enough problems sometimes, considering that my four main characters are all teenage boys. But in all seriousness, you do need that one common ground that we can all relate to to allow you to enter into the nonhuman world. g/a

[John] 9:43 pm: You know, I’ve often felt that the most bizarre aliens are human beings. Serial killers, really quirky people. You don’t always have to go to sf or fantasy. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:43 pm: I’ve read a few of those POV from serial killer–Poppy Brite, awesome

[teresawymore] 9:43 pm: Now THAT is alien

[CindyLynn] 9:44 pm: Yes, K.L.!

[John] 9:44 pm: Perhaps if you want to create a really fascinating alien, all you need to do is channel someone you’ve met. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:44 pm: *laughs*

[CindyLynn] 9:44 pm: What are some of the other reasons why non-human characters are important?

[teresawymore] 9:44 pm: Seriously…isn’t that it…just isolate one aspect out of proportion and you have a nonhuman character

[teresawymore] 9:45 pm: Nonhuman like spec fic in general allows you to examine morality

[klrichardsson] 9:45 pm: Exploration. Inventing something new. Exploring some aspect of humanity that’s puzzling and odd and illogical. I still like finding the human in nonhuman. And, as Teresa says, pushing the limits on things like morality. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:45 pm: conventions, assumption

[teresawymore] 9:46 pm: Are nonhuman characters easier to write?

[teresawymore] 9:46 pm: I mean, are they more stereotyped or shallow one-dimensional?

[John] 9:46 pm: The conceptual freedom, CindyLynn, both in fantasy, sf, and elsewhere. The wildness of Alice’s Wonderland. The Golden Age of SF explored the unbridled reaches of the imagination. What creatures are out there? This feeds to our species’ ancient fascination with the stars and universe. g/a

[CindyLynn] 9:47 pm: Teresa, I don’t think so….I mean, I think that people write them poorly sometimes (for awhile I swore if there was one more intelligent cat in a story I was going to quit reading fantasy for a year) but I think they are the hardest to get right? g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:47 pm: I think they’re more complex. At least, I like them to be. There’s no excuse for your alien to be a stereotypical guy in funny ears or with a third eye. That nonhuman has every right to be as fully-fleshed out as a ‘human’ character. I’m for nonhuman rights as well as humans! *g* g/a

[teresawymore] 9:47 pm: Yay!!

[CindyLynn] 9:47 pm: *cackles*

[teresawymore] 9:47 pm: Right CindyLynn…poor writing is poor writing

[CindyLynn] 9:47 pm: Well, I anything else you’d like to say before I open the floor, guys? ga

[klrichardsson] 9:48 pm: I don’t like the idea of nonhumans as just a gimmick in a story. Give them a legit role, or don’t use them. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:48 pm: I like the third eye BTW

[klrichardsson] 9:48 pm: There’s a guy on the Avatar cartoon that shoots fire out of a third eye in his forehead. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:48 pm: g/a

[John] 9:48 pm: I’ve done that sometimes after I’ve had too many to drink. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:49 pm:

[Dragonlots] 9:52 pm: I noticed no one mentioned Andre Norton as someone who developed good non human characters. For example, her Zacathans, Borsk, which was a type of animal, and many more.

[CindyLynn] 9:52 pm: You’re right, she did…I’ve not read her in ages.

[basletum] 9:52 pm: How often do the nonhuman cultures tend to be analogous to ancient Earth cultures (e.g. an imperial-type race acting a lot like Ancient Romans, etc.)?

[teresawymore] 9:53 pm: All the TIME

[klrichardsson] 9:53 pm: I have no shame in admitting that my Shahi are partly based on
the Maori of New Zealand, with a little Australian Aboriginal thrown in for flavor. Except that I put them in trees. g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:54 pm: You pick what you like from what exists, and then you…embellish it. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:54 pm: My complaint about old mythologies…but it’s what we got. I don’t mind the hierarchy but authors used the names ,too, and that’s unimaginative

[Rhiannon] 9:55 pm: I’ve noticed that some of the best non-human characters I’ve read about were trolls, orcs or in the case of CS Lewis fauns and centaurs.

[zan] 9:56 pm: Alan Dean Foster, H Beam Piper, C.J Cherryh and the evil Borg on Star Trek were not covered in great alien writers and characters just to name a few. And one of my all time favorites was Henlien’s Star Beast. I agree with Teresa on the Mythology names and no imagination.

[teresawymore] 9:56 pm: zan…yes yes yes

[Rhiannon] 9:56 pm: How come we don’t see more of these character types in fiction?

[teresawymore] 9:56 pm: Cherryh awesome

[teresawymore] 9:57 pm: for trolls and orcs, it may be a stigma…every D&D player wrote such a story at some time

[John] 9:57 pm: Rhiannon, some editors are tired of them. One reason they’re good is because they’re part of a tradition we can easily tap into. g/a

[klrichardsson] 9:57 pm: Rhiannon: I think some of that is that orcs and trolls and fauns and centaurs are kinda engrained in the culture, so we recognize them and know them as well as if they’re human. We understand their motives. So it’s almost like it’s a shortcut to use. I like using them. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:57 pm: Doing old myths fresh s what we need

[klrichardsson] 9:57 pm: Exactly, Teresa! g/a

[Jazzyartwriter2] 9:57 pm: I particularly like immortals based on druid or Celtic mythology. Karen Marie Moning has some good ones.

[teresawymore] 9:57 pm: shortut, yes

[klrichardsson] 9:58 pm: I’d like to see more usage of non-European mythology, be it Asian or African or First Nation. g/a

[teresawymore] 9:58 pm: I admire non western mythology and know very little

[teresawymore] 9:59 pm: I’m very western-biased

[teresawymore] 9:59 pm: just by education

[klrichardsson] 9:59 pm: I’m a medievalist by trade who’s being seduced by Orientalism

[Oliver] 9:59 pm: I have to admit – I still like some human in my aliens. And I like to read about the classic non humans – those characters are great.

[CindyLynn] 10:00 pm: Oliver, I agree…I like the fae if they are done well, for example.

[basletum] 10:00 pm: Mostly in reply to Rhiannon’s question….

[basletum] 10:01 pm: Orcs and trolls, etc., can still be used if you put a different take on them. For instance in some of my stories, the orcs are actually the good guys (well, as “good” as good guys tend to get on my world).

[teresawymore] 10:01 pm: I hope there are no dungeons

[basletum] 10:02 pm: And they actually are descended from Orcs (and their features, etc. account to it). er, orcas. g/a

[Jazzyartwriter2] 10:02 pm: What about Native American myths and legends. They’ve got shape shifters.

[klrichardsson] 10:02 pm: I once played a D&D campaign as an evil drow, so… Yeah, any new spin that you can put on a topic is great! As long as your vampires don’t sparkle. g/a

[teresawymore] 10:03 pm: yay Drow! I drew so many of them

[klrichardsson] 10:03 pm: I’d love to write a Coyote story someday, just because he’s a giant shade of gray. Talk about exploring humanity’s amoral side… g/a

[John] 10:03 pm: Sometimes the different spin is not the nonhuman but the style of presentation. Such as in Cloverfield. g/a

[teresawymore] 10:03 pm: Coyotes are powerful metaphors

[Oliver] 10:04 pm: For treasa – re: your comment on M/M — that’s okay, I’ve vowed never to write heterosexual stories, because other than conniving, quirky grannies, trailer park, good natured floozies and shirely temple like little girls, all my females are cold, evil, b!tches. I just can’t get the knack of writing your average female….

[klrichardsson] 10:05 pm: LOL, Oliver, I think you’re my new best friend.

[teresawymore] 10:05 pm: Oliver…lmao!

[CindyLynn] 10:05 pm: Who wants an average female?

[CindyLynn] 10:05 pm: XD

[teresawymore] 10:05 pm: I like bitches

[basletum] 10:05 pm: Females are average?

[klrichardsson] 10:05 pm: Even with nonhumans, it’s hard not to fall into stereotypes! g/a

[John] 10:06 pm: Oliver, this may sound strange, but some non-average females are not bitches. g/a

[zan] 10:07 pm: Coyote is the closest thing to a cuss word the Navajo have. And it is both a good and bad thing to call someone.

[teresawymore] 10:08 pm: awesome

[Amber_Stults] 10:08 pm: If you feel you’re writing a non-human character that is stereotyped, where do you go back to in the character creation process to find something to make them less stereotypical? Or do you let it sit for a while to let your subconscious work it out? g/a

[klrichardsson] 10:08 pm: I’ll let it sit a while. Or talk the issue over with someone to see what they think. It’s hard to get out of my own headspace sometimes, since I’ll be too close to the character. g/a

[John] 10:09 pm: Amber, one place to go is the psychology. Make it in some important way different from humans’. g/a

[CindyLynn] 10:09 pm: If I feel like my character is stereotyped, I examine them closely. What is it that’s common about this character? What boundary can I stretch? How can I fix it? g/a

[teresawymore] 10:09 pm: Really, write a nonhuman character like they are human, but exaggerate some feature/mindset/morality. Develop all aspect of character and lifestyle

[teresawymore] 10:10 pm: If your character is a stereotype it’s because you’re leaving something OUT

[John] 10:10 pm: Or putting the wrong thing in. g/a

[widdershins] 10:11 pm: sorry… woolgathering …Did orcs exist as characters before Tolkien and LotR? g/a

[basletum] 10:11 pm: Regarding nonhuman heroes in POV: it can be challenging but very fun and rewarding. g/a

[teresawymore] 10:11 pm: Wow…interesting not sure about origin of orcs

[klrichardsson] 10:11 pm: Widdershins! Oh yeah! We’re going back to Old English/Norse mythology there. g/a

[teresawymore] 10:12 pm: Nonhuman POV heroes…would that include Twilight series, or is Edward not the hero?

[klrichardsson] 10:12 pm: Orc was Old English for someone nonhuman or foreign.

[teresawymore] 10:12 pm: curious

[basletum] 10:12 pm: I think it’s in Bella’ POV but not sure

[teresawymore] 10:12 pm: my nephews love it…I’ve never read

[John] 10:13 pm: Teresa, yes, it would include that, but it’s not a radical departure. Everybody knows vampires. g/a

[basletum] 10:13 pm: My niece is a Twilight fan

[zan] 10:13 pm: Twilight is in Bella’s but Midnight Sun is in Edwards

[klrichardsson] 10:13 pm: I’ve suffered through the Twilight books. Until the one comes out from Edward’s POV, it’s not non-human.

[teresawymore] 10:13 pm: Right…vamps are over done…and yet I read/watch them all!

[klrichardsson] 10:13 pm: Except for the last one arguably because of the thing.

[widdershins] 10:13 pm: thanks kl… got my attention now will look into orcs further

[CindyLynn] 10:14 pm: Any other questions or thoughts?

[klrichardsson] 10:14 pm: Check Tolkien’s scholarly work, Widdershins. He was a great medievalist. g/a

[sjcollins] 10:14 pm: Her Host book might fit along more “nonhuman”

[John] 10:14 pm: Teresa, there was once a magazine that published stories on a vampire theme, and the vampires could be anything — including mothers-in-law! g/a

[teresawymore] 10:14 pm: lmao

[basletum] 10:14 pm: widdershins: there’s lots of unmined stuff about orcs that a lot of people don’t realize.

[widdershins] 10:15 pm: ideas about where to start mining?

[klrichardsson] 10:15 pm: Old legends of any culture, Widdershins. Go back to the old stuff and see what you can find.

[klrichardsson] 10:16 pm: For orcs, though, I’d say any of the Old English/Norse/Germanic sagas.

[basletum] 10:16 pm: Complete Fantasy Reference from Writer’s Digest is a good start, plus Tolkien’s articles about Old English fairy tales.

[John] 10:16 pm: I have a great book — THE TIME LIFE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THINGS THAT NEVER WERE. That’s one place to start. g/a

[CindyLynn] 10:17 pm: I do want to comment that I’m writing a story about the old Russian Domovoi, and researching them, and trying to envision what the Domovoi must be like, using the rules you fi9nd in stories, and the evidence you find in stories, is a real challenge. A wonderful one, of course…but it’s like…you want to get it right, because when you’re not making it up out of whole cloth, you can be wrong.

[teresawymore] 10:18 pm: yikes…that’s right…I’ve done historical and have the same fear

[klrichardsson] 10:18 pm: I think that’s one great thing about spec fic, though, CindyLynn. If we’re slightly wrong/off, it is spec, after all. We’re not quite held to the same standards as historical. Which may be why I write very little historical. g/a

[sjcollins] 10:18 pm: @CindyLynn I would love to read that, (love most things about Russian culture)

[CindyLynn] 10:18 pm: well, I’d like to thank all of you guys for coming. You’ve been wonderful as always…and I’d like to applaud my fellow panelists.

[teresawymore] 10:19 pm: thank you all

[Oliver] 10:19 pm: Thank you for an enlightening evening…, wish all my Saturday night dates with the computer were this entertaining. Gawd! I need to get a life…

[klrichardsson] 10:19 pm: It’s been really fun! Thank you!

[John] 10:19 pm: Go to different, nonwestern cultures. I’ve written stories about Nauru, using their mythology. g/a

[CindyLynn] 10:20 pm: Thank you guys so much.